Accelerating Value
Accelerating Value

Episode · 1 year ago

Ayaz Malik: When Risk Means LIfe or Death


Ayaz Malik, Group Marketing Manager Digital Strategy at Roche, talks with us about creating value over a long period of time. Rather than a “campaign,” we should be thinking in terms of continuous engagement, constantly making small changes to what we are building based on analytics.

We also talked about:

- The relationship between time, value, and risk

- Ayaz’s life mission to serve others faithfully

- A marketing campaign vs. a mindset of continuous engagement

- Using data responsibly to enable relationship and decision-making

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Today, every budget approval is an investment deal. If you're a marketer, sales or business leader, you had to promise to deliver value and impact. Writing. The wave to get there is hard enough. Finding your way through the storm is even harder if you're looking for that path forward so that you don't wipe out. You've come to the right place. Let's get into the show. Hey, welcome again to accelerating value. I am Mark Stue and each week I get to talk to some really amazing people about everything that it takes to create value. How they look at it, how they define it, how they plan for it, how they invest in it, how they realize whether or not they achieved it. So the proof of it. And you know, we talked to all kinds of folks right not just see suite members. We go further down in organizations, because if there's ever you know, there's a few great truths in life and one of them is where you sit determines where you stand on many, many things, and so people see value it different layers of an organization. So we were really in shiting that. We talked to VC's and family off plus investors. We talked sales guys, we talked to people who are mainly customers, so like procurement people and things like that, about how they define value and think about value. So that is what we're all about here, and today our guest is somebody that actually I have waited in really long time to talk to you and it's so a Yasbolok is probably one of the deepest thinkers that I know. He he really thinks about things, not only, you know, like deeply and kind of the stereotypical sense, but he he looks at them on very much a multi vector kind of basis. He's looking at he's spinning the ball, he's thinking about it from this angle and that angle, and it makes him really, really interesting to talk to. He's a longtime veteran of the pharmaceutical industry. He's the new group Marketing Leader for Digital Strategy at Roche Pharmaceuticals, major company in that space. A Yaz, really glad you're here, man. It's good to be here. Thank you. I just one correction. Signed the group. I'm marketing manager for Digital Strategy for the Roush Diagnostic Corporation. Got It, okay, and in Indianapolis, for the North America region. And what is the relationship between that and Roche Pharma sold. Roych has two business as, the pharmaceutical business and the diagnostic business, and I'm in the diagnostic house. All Right, son, I trust that Rama Don was good for you and your family. Absolutely wonderful. Yeah, it's a great experience, you know, as the whole ideas transformation, and so I feel refreshed and ready to go again. So then this first question is made for you. Okay, all right, both is a human being and a leader in the pharmaceutical industry. How do you understand value creation, realizing that it takes many forms and they are all potentially really important and so like, how do you keep track of the value that's going on around you, both personally and professionally? I mean in the professional side, obviously, you know we have value we create as a company for the world, you know. So this is our altruistic piece of the value we bring to our patients. What it be the the therapies on the pharmaceutical side or the diagnostic solutions for the diagnostic piece, and so that's what drives, I think, the company right in...

...the mission of doing. Now what patients need next is how do we create the maximum values so that the right patient gets the right test at the right time, whether they are a patient or not, but they received this at the right time and that's what drives the company, which I value. Then on the personal side, you know, you think about creating value as an employee. That's what I value, is having this purpose of the company that allows me to think about the value I bring in each equation of everything I do that helps fulfill that goal and then when I bring, you know, value creation down to then for the our customers. You know, these are the hospitals and the institutions that drive in delivering either the therapy or delivering the diagnostic it's important for us to make sure that, you know, when we see value, that they see a value in a partner like us, that we're driving and giving the most, whether it be our instruments, are our essays or are our therapies, that they're seeing a value in being able to then pass that on to their patients and their systems, and it also then transfers to the you know, the efficiencies that the hospitals or the institutions realize and, working with us as a partner, that we bring other subject matter expertise before besides the solutions. And then there's value for the people that we work with, you know, the employees that work that actually do this great work that brings us to medicine and the and the diagnostics to life. The value that the that I look at, least I look at it, connecting that side to is that, you know, what value the people feel, and that's where the purpose comes in where daily, you know, we feel like we're committing and contribute to something that's a value to the world. On the personal side, you know, I'm driven by a a simple, fundamental piece that I learned from my grandma a long time ago, which is, you know, serve others faithfully, and that's has become my life, commission and so if I look at that, then, being true to the Rosh mission, it fits beautifully right that, on a personal level, I want to create value by serving others where they genuinely feel a connection that when they interact with me or if I represent the company, that they say, you know, that was better, it left me better than when I started, and that's really important. Yeah, you know, you're I think a lot of people are listening to you just now talking about that, and one of the things that's striking is how few people feel that their personal value creation, their personal altruistic mission in life is aligned with their employers. Yes, how do you how do you think about that? How would you counsel someone is kind of struggling that, given the fact that you're not? Yeah, you know, it's been a journey. I mean I've worked in the advertising business where you serve multiple customers and you could be selling anything from, you know, tobacco to alcohol, to food, to anything, and what I started looking for is, you know, what is something that I can be proud of, that I wake up every morning for and know that I'm serving others and that it is not something that I can condone or say I don't want to do for people. And you know, then around that time, as I was looking in this journey, this is about twenty years ago, when I was really trying to form you like, what do I want to work for? And healthcare became the focus, obviously. So I come from a line of doctors and people in the medical field. My father's one is a pathologist, retired, but my mom passed away and she died of, you know, being misdiagnosed and she ended up with Sepsis and had, you know, some form of cancer that came forward very quickly and killed her in ten days from the diagnosis. And and when I saw that, you know, I thought, okay, there it is, right in front of me again. And, low and behold, right about that time, roush knocked on my door and said we want you to come and work for us and I thought, okay, this is too coincidental. My Mom is, my dad's a pathologist, my mom died from cancer and Sepsis and misdiagnosis, and I'm being asked to go work for a diagnostic company to lead their communication team into...

Sun Arizona and they just bought a diagnostic company that's going to do tissue diagnostics focusing on cancer. Too Many stars aligning there and I thought, you know, this is the focus. So so I think for me it was this divine intervention that led me to understand that I have this purpose now, and so that's led me to this part right, to find the value that I can bring in bringing communication, marketing, digital, all these other things that I've been blessed to work in, to focus on this healthcare space and create value there. You know, one of the things that. So let's talk in that in the same old thing, with that same line of thinking. One of the things that's really important into people a lot of times, particularly when they're in pain, is speed to value. Yes, right. So, like I know that when I get a headache and I can take to add little or one at one of the things that I love about that is that in fifteen minutes I don't have a headache anywhere. I'm willing to kind of set aside some of the potential risks associate with that right, in order to achieve that. When? When? And and I find that also the bigger the challenge, right, the more people want it to be over with fast, quickly. When you kind of think about this, both in terms of helping people, serving people and, and particularly given what Roash does, serving people who are, you know, in some form of distress, maybe even extremists, right, or, from a marketing point of view, setting the right expectations around time to value, how do you think about this? How do you juggle this part of it? Yeah, no, he never wants it tomorrow, but it's of course. I mean, you know, the the needs are far away. Our capacity to execute right now, right, even in the digital world, especially with the volume of change around us, as being brought by the tech companies, by even with our organizations desire to become more digitally focus. So, you know, you see the transformation going on right and I think that you know the old the old adage no pain, no game applies. And you know we can rush and we especially in a big organization like ours, we can rush and build something very quickly, but it often results in disaster, right, because low adoption. People move on from careers and jobs and move on to other places, or resources dwindle because budget focus shifts to something else. So all these competing things happen. And and something that's quick. Like you said, you took the two ASPIR and you phoned the solution and you put it in. But what happened the adoption and we get from a marketing perspective? Let me speak to that. For instance. You know, we have what I call digital and technology residue sitting around. We have process these tools. You know, we have technologies we've paid for that we use maybe one tenth the power for. We have, you know, practices then sitting around where the person already left and I say, where did this practice come from well so and someone's here ten years ago. The why are we still doing it? You know, and so these are the things that I think, you know, I makes me ponder and when I look at all this. So when you talk about time and value of they're absolutely correlated. But you know, we cannot take the the can I say enough about the fact of taken the time to formulate the right approach and making sure that we showed the long vision. They've me take seven years, ten years to get there, but that's the goal, right. You can be calibrated every year to adjust based on what's happening with market forces, but you got to have something you stick the round and say this is what we're shooting for and then keep walking people to it. But that that one thing that you just take the two aspiring for and get it over with quickly is not going to create tremitus value. Maybe short term, check the box. Value created a long term not sustainable, and even more so now in this digital world and marketing world we have. I'm finding that how do you help people keep up with a technology ramp and the marketing practices challenges...

...ramp and the analytics you're involved in? How do we analytics work with this to inform a are, you know, all our decisions going forward. So, if I correlate that back to our company, what I love about what we're doing is taking this methodical approach of letting things kind of develop. You know, we're absolutely focus. There's a vision and there's a direction for forward. Analytics and everything work and we use a work called decision support and you could take it down a path that that would label at branded and package and there's your two aspirin taken right and here we are. We're marketing decision support. But what I love about what we're doing is the businesses evolving with partners, external partners, internal partners, learning from them, technology, learning. What do we have to build ourselves? What do we know bring a third party and to help us with, and we're methodically going forward in defining the organization traditional business, what is the digital business in the future? And so so the time that it takes to do that, a company has to be able to play the long game and have the vision to create the value over time. Where the companies, I think, that are focused on the short term when are not going to be around much longer. They won't be able to be there and sustain it, and I think that's the longevity of this company that I've come to admire and love so much is that it gives people like me the space and the time to define strategy, value, the creation of that value and allow the time to fail along the way to this is huge. Right test that, fail it and then be able to embrace that failure and say what I learned from it and go again. And so we may not be the fastest to market to create that value, but what I love about what we're doing is we take the time necessary to create the right value for that customer. So that actually brings up a really it's the third leg right, if time and value or the first to risk, is the third. Yeah, sure, and one of the things that I really saw when I was CMO at honeywell aerospace is that kind of not at all too similar to your situation. It was a life and death business, right, if you didn't if your products weren't the best, you know, people unfortunately died in plane crashes. Right. So that culture was was really, really strong and you would want it to be strong, but it also had a tendency at that time to that that same perspective on risk, that total risk aversion permeated into the business of the business. Yeah, of course, Yah, tendor was how do you how do you kind of juggle that? Number One, do you have to juggle that in there out of Roche and how do you juggle that? Yeah, I'm you know, obviously risk is a part of our risk assessment right, as a part of our business. You cannot be successful like this company has been, and I've only been a part of it for eleven years, but you know you're talking historically a hundred year old company, right, how does it? You cannot survive if you're not good at risk management. And so absolutely, you know, there's people in here in this company that help us with those dialogs and me, when I was at working in Switz, from of this part of the team, we routinely sit with some risk, risk management people around especially the communication function, right, is how we managing risk around communications, and it was always an interesting and I'm and I was going to view the okay, so this is big right. There's a lot of people who work on this that are really good at this, that helped bring forward risk to the business of it. Want to be compliance for his financial risk or whatever it might be right, but they bring this forward as a dialog and so I think it has to be a deliberate focus of a company is to think about risk. And today, my goodness, you know, in the digital and marketing world, analytics can show US risk and and you know, whether we can see, for instance, you know, how our customers are behaving. What are they consuming and content? What is a sent to it of their dialog online? What is a volume of that dialog? Where are they right? Are they in...

Europe? Are they here? And we look at the things that we can see today that we could not see ten fifteen years ago through analytics and and bringing that back into the marketing world. You know, in where we look at it, my team, you know, we depend on the analytics, we depend on Voice of customer, we depend on being able to see this data to be able to say, you know, what do we need to work on? And then, you know, we get to work with amazing compliance, legal and regulatory partners who bring forward, you know, what risks we face with privacy laws, with, you know, data protection laws, all these type of things that are now emerging. You know, there's not any one view that's central. There's European GDP are and some, but not everybody. They're right. It's not a federated piece yet, and so here we are trying to do the best we can, but we have amazing partners that help us see risk and then we our jobs to of course, work with them to mitigate it. You know, one of the things that the healthcare industry as a whole is is kind of famous for in the popular minds. Right, it is in your in your advertisements, there's always the fine breadth. Right, sometimes it's literally fine friend, other times it's somebody speaking a little on the fast side towards the end of the commercial or whatever, right outlining different risk factors. Do you do you feel like that you're ever in a place where where you have to issue your own version of fine front around a marketing investment that you're proposing to make? Well, I think that, you know, there's an obligation from a claim spaces right as to what we can and cannot say, and so I think that obligation comes forward, of whether we find print or in the bold headline or wherever it might be right, but we have to declare certain things to make sure and that the integrity of this company too, I think, is that, you know, we are compelled to and complete and ask to buy policy right and by practice is we have to disclose and be transparent and and so that's there. And so I see it. You know, whether it be like, for instance, and the challenge here now is in the digital marketing world we live in, you know, we could either deliver persona based content that's highly gated and never give it to anybody and protect that way that says, you know, you can't see this because you're from Europe and because it's fully sold here in the United States. But realistically, this world and now looking at content that's being sold all over the place, and so I think it isn't coming upon companies and us to be transparent, to have the kind of language that shows that, you know, this product is not sold here. Besides the the, you know, the the all the other legal information that we have to have the bottom of our pages and etc. But you know, we don't hide things like optouts. You know what? We send people information they can opt out. We make sure it's very clear. So those the kind of things I think from from own integrity perspective, we do feel the need, and we do do, I think, a really good job of this. Yeah, there is fine print things that we need to bring forward very clearly, because that that one of the things that we see were and over again in the analytics, and this is runs across industries and companies. It gets a lot more intense, though, as the cost and or the risk levels go up, right attached to the by decision. Yeah, and that is the importance of confidence and trust. Yes, you could argue, I think, in a very real sense, that it is the ultimate factor, of course, right, and that you can have an even the two, or are have a they they operate independently of each other. So, I mean the the story that I tell a lot as an illustration is that, you know, I trust my wife totally, but I don't have any confidence in her ability to drive a Formula One race car. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and that that illustrates the difference. Right, we know we want to be with people we trust. We right was to work with people or...

...have a even a vendor or anybody right that you don't trust. We just don't do it. It's not in our nature. We run away from people or we fight with them. You know, let mean those who we don't trust, we don't want to be with, and I think the same is true about us in our customers and our patients, that you know, there's a high degree of premium paid in this organization, at least for me, one who wants to serve others faithfully. I can't cross that line where I say, you know what, I'm going to create a situation where mark doesn't trust me. You know, it doesn't occur to me to act disingenuously with you, because my DNA is built this way. Right. It doesn't mean I'm not going to make mistakes and screw up, but I will own them and I think that that's the that's the part that you know, whether we marketing, sales, no matter what it is, this trust has to be there that you know, when I'm communicating to you, marketing to you or whatever, that you can you can count on the fact that this is true. And you know, speaking of also truth content, think of the content that's out there that is non compliant right now. You know, we have worked hard, or across ninety someome on plus affiliates to create the mechanisms that allow us, I mean, we perfect, know, but we're working on it right, is that this focus on hyper focus on the fact that the content we deliver to our patients are doctors, you know, our hospitals institutions, whether be economic data or whether it be, you know, a financial data or performance date or whatever it might be, that it is on label compliant, has been approved by our regulatory legal teams, that we can do this in your market right, because certain markets restrict DTC, for instance. You know. So we're highly mindful of the laws and policies and practices of each land and they're not all equal. But I agree with you. You know that this trustin foundational. But the other part is right. Can can our customers build our instruments and do the diagnostics, you know, without us? So it's kind of a mutual benefit thing. Like you said, you can trust me for being a good partner, but you can't build the instrument yourself. I can't trust you to do that. How do you know? This is more of a marketing question. How do you decide how long to wait before you kill? That's a great question. So in the in my previous experience, most world create a campaign, they create the content, come in and run it and then afterwards in a waterfall approach. Right, here's a measurement and we're bemoaning the fact that it didn't work. And sure we learn from it, right, but today's analytics allow us to see every step of the way how this is performing and I think it's a disservice as a marketer to not bring this up to your leadership and other people to say how we're doing that in the old fashioned way is a misuse of money and resources of this company. And so you know. Yeah, and it needs to shift and I would even submit that the word campaign itself needs to be rethought. And in this world of continuous engagement, we need to create content that's relevant, compelling and curated properly so it's findable at the moment the person's looking for it. Push it out and hope somebody finds it, you know, in two weeks or react to it in two weeks, based on what we are doing internally. And that's just requires to rewire our marketing brain, our budgeting brain are, you know, activation brain, every single thing like that inside the company. So that's that again, that multi factor connecting the dots. You know that. I start to look at that. We bring this together, but yeah, absolutely. You're so right about that. I mean I think that that one of the one of the ways that I think of a campaign is it's it is an administrative bucket and it is one hundred percent inside out. In perspective. Is your audiences will not perceive a campaign. Yeah, I mean people. I mean, when was the last time you got online and said, let me look at Rossi's campaign? You know, we don't behave like this or Nike's campaign on shoes. You know, we looking for shoes the golf club, you know, and we go looking. We don't look at a wonder what tailor made saying now about their club. I don't care, right, I mean I'm looking for clubs. I'm going to talk to my peers and networks etc. So so we behave very differently in our own primary research is showing, right that now greater than sixty five percent of the time customers are engaging peer networks, you know, and and... and search and web etc. Before they come talk to a cust at the salesperson, even though sales persons it keep part of the equation, but the marketing mix just shifted, right. It's no longer just the salesperson driving the instrument sale. It's now a whole host of factors around that person and that makes marketing, then, especially for people who are looking at innovation like me, and strategy, we have to think of differently. We have to surround the sales person with more data, more information as to what's happening with their customer above the sales funnel, prior to the sale happening. And and I love the fact that our sales teams are actually hung for this and we're engaging with us as and then also, you just to mention this, but when we think about the word campaign, when we actually embed that in your budgeting process and say what's your you know that we give each market or a campaign and then we behave like that, we create the campaigns we you know. So I'm also saying, why do we just give the word campaign and just talk about your marketing activity and and then what content you're going to need to e engage these people virtually on a continuous basis? Yeah, you know, I think that for a for a long time, marketers defined competence in a number of ways, one of which was orchestration, right, and so pains, Yep, bringing fast the evidence of my ability to orchestrate. Yes, yes, what they were, what they did not realize, and and and if we get one question of proof all the time, it's how do I prove the value of my campaign? Yeah, right, the problem is that all the components of the campaign have different time lags. Yes, value that they create. Yes, and so, in addition to not being perceived as a campaign by your audience, that the different piece parts are cascading out in the time in a way that just connects them entirely from the idea of the campaign. Absolutely, and that's why I'd call it this micterminologistical and continuous engagement. Right, that, how do we shift on marketing mindset to have the relationship with our target audiences on an ongoing basis like they want to have with us? And and you know when they're searching for just like, say, high level, I wonder what's happening with efficiency in the pathology lab today. Where's our story? We should be telling the story. Where number one at this. We should be really good at this. Right. So, where's our story? We need to work on this kind of content and make sure it's findable for these people when they're looking forward so that when then they when they raise your hand and say, you know what, I really want to hear about this more. Now, you know, here comes the sales engagement right, to nurture them in through using marketing, automation of other techniques, to nurture them down the sales funnel. But to make us attractive. It's like the unit's like the flower, you know, with the with the pretty color on the front that attracts the be we got to get that part going first, more and more in this world, before we pull them down in to get the nectar, you know, just got to make that connection at one of the ways that I in. This is not an either or, it's a both and situation. But just in one little teeny any part of what I do. So I post a lot on linkedin. I'm pretty active. There's a lot on my page. And yet, and that's important. Yes, what I would I have seen over and over and over again, is that it's when I interact live with other people beneath someone else's post. MM, that is far more yeah, if you have any conversation online. Yeah, right, yeah, is it an amazing how many people want to opine. Then it's right up and I think we have to get comfortable with this right, that it's okay that we're going to have these very diverse opinions and thoughts and ideas. But that's what I think makes it rich, you know, is that to be able to open up, like you said, you post something, you're able to open up this dialog. I mean, I can tell you way back when, early in my days, when I first went back, when I was recruited to go to a Tucson and ahead of my curve, some other people were doing this. They had set up a blog that were posting some, you know, slides from the pathologists with some very new techniques and inviting other physicians to comment. This is blogs...

...and things were popular. End Up with Fifteenzero followers and people engaging with them, just, you know, doctors coming in and chatting. But none of us really fully realize that, you know, this is a powerful mechanism that we need to harness. They would just we were just playing with this stuff and my colleagues are working on this and later on really, Oh my God, that was a huge audience that they tapped into. And look at what we're doing with this now today, ten years later. Yeah, we're with press releases, back then we thought, yeah, and and you we didn't have the analytics back then that could readily show us what was happening. But today, you know, I mean, my goodness, what the data can show us about our audience as people. I mean, if we use it the right way, with integrity, I think that, you know, we can create a wonderful relationship with our external audiences and being able to give them the information they need so they can make the right decision at the right time. Yeah, this has been a fantastic podcast. I really you know, everything that I had hoped for and more were he's. Yeah, as you just were, a tremendous combination of the practical and, let's just call it what it is, the metaphysical. Thank you for having me here. I appreciate it. It's been wonderful talk to you. I mean, I appreciate all that you're doing with the analytics side. You know, I love, like I said, I love, as I told you before, I love your pragmatism. Well, I love the wisdom you bring in the history of the dot connecting you put for all of us and, quite frankly, I love the fact that you provoke us, you know, to talk about some of these things. So thank you for your part in this. Thank you man. All right, guys, we'll be back next week with another really great episode. Thanks so much. The sooner you can optimize your marketing spend, the quicker you can start delivering clear, measurable value to Your Business. That's exactly where business GPS from. Proof analytics can help. Learn more at proof analytics DOT AI. You've been listening to accelerating value, where raw conversations about the journey to business impact help you weather the storm ahead. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time,.

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