Accelerating Value
Accelerating Value

Episode 1 · 8 months ago

Why RevOps Should Be Your Revenue Referee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The rise of RevOps over the past 5 years is impossible to overlook.

But despite the surge in popularity, this business function is still in its infancy — leading to many questions as to its most effective implementation and the future of the role.

To help answer those questions, today I’m speaking with Nate Follen, Revenue Ops & Biz Systems at BentoBox, who shares the secrets to successful RevOps.

Join us as we discuss:

  • The ideal role of RevOps within a business
  • How data reporting and RevOps work together
  • The future of RevOps 

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Today. Every budget approval is an investment deal. If you're a marketer, sales or business leader, you had to promise to deliver value and impact. Writing the wave to get there is hard enough. Finding your way through the storm is even harder if you're looking for that path forward so that you don't wipe out. You've come to the right place. Let's get into the show. Hey, everybody, this is marks deuice. I am, as always, back to you with more accelerating value. Today we have a we're kind of a little bit in a thread right now about rev ops, and revops has a lot of interesting aspects to it, not the least of which is that it is not only very specifically really important and it's a very important trend. Trend is gaining a lot of strength and power behind it, particularly in the wake of the last two years, but also it is emblematic of a larger trend in big OPS right so the rise of operations as a function in businesses, where that it's no longer kind of like everything that's necessary to keep the lights on. It's more out front than ever before. So we are here today to talk to nate. I'm going to get him to introduce himself in a second. Nate fallen is a really, really well thought of, highly respected, wellknown REV OPS leader who has a lot of really great thinking about where this is, has been in the past and kind of the arc that he sees moving forward on Rev ops and what that means for marketing, for sales, for customer success and for other pieces of the of the go to market. Pie, nate, really glad you're here, man. Thanks for your time. Man, what an intro. Thanks, market, really appreciate it. Glad to be here. So let's start with epiphanies, right. Sure, you know you were at one point, and this is true for almost all of us, right, you're cruising along, you were doing your job and then all of a sudden something happened and you were never the same again in terms of the way you saw a particular thing in your in your career. Tell us a little bit about that particular as it pertains to value. Sure. Well, my background is in systems, so come from the sales for US world as an accidental sales for Sadman, and in that world you're getting about a lot of that. Yeah, a lot of that.

You have a highly opinionated people asking you for things that need to be done. You know two weeks ago and reported on for all of all the history. So come from the systems world where I get these requests from from strong marketing leaders, strong sales leaders, strong C S leaders and leadership in general, and that's where I started growing my career towards revops. So it as a growing trend to have that that centralized unit that's responsible for the end end funnel of revenue and retention. So see, yeah, these epiphanies, I guess I've really stepped in it over the years and you know, we've seen some things go go bad with systems and rebops or just confusion amongst companies. So I think my epiphanies both come from the successes as well as the failures I've seen companies make. Absolutely so I think one small success that that I've seen is probably stems from from failures, is oftentimes you try to overprescribe what we think is happening, to run a run experiments on revenue or place bets maybe in what we're going to do in marketing or sales. So I've seen this happen where we build these big projects around capturing data from our sales team, for instance, or capturing data that we need this this full reporting from from the marketing team. One request we got in sales was hey, we'd like to capture maybe ten, fifteen fields on the sales side. We took a step back and said, what's our what's our hypothesis here? We we want more inform nation from the sales team. Why don't we today add a quick field asking sellers to just tell us in their own words why they want to deal? Make that required for every deal that closes. This is in the add text base. We were trying a bunch of different, different experiments on different sales team selling into different business units. It's a very kind of complex sales cycle, working with agencies, brands and other other folks. So so we added that field implemented in about a day or two in sales force. As sellers, you know why? Do you think? We won this deal and we got just a plethora of information. Everyone had like really the sellers love talking about why they want or whether there could at their jobs. So we got tons of really great info about hey, it was actually big shout out to our SE team. This sales engineer really close this deal for us or I actually knew this person through this this agency that we've worked in the past. So what it did is it uncovered a lot of information that wasn't captured in the sales force fields that we needed to that. We're very structured. It felt more like work. This was open text and we also built the process to share that broadly across the company. So when we talked about REV ops, half of that really is the rituals and processes to knowledge share across very top of funnel all the way down through the the retention and and potentially financed side of decisions were making the bottom of the funnel that could impact our our revenue. So that went live. We shared broadly every deal of why we won in a slack channel. Everybody wanted to join that slack channel and everybody had something to say about about the one deals and we ended up spending up a different sales team based on the feedback that we got about how we needed really detailed experts in the programmatic buying domain. So we...

...had one or two we ended up spending up a full org of programmatic experts. So that was a really big win. It didn't take, you know, a bunch of you know, really smart people in the room filling out like all these detailed requirements. It was just let's get the information from the sales team directly to our product marketing and sales leadership. So and where did that ultimately take you? Like how did that ultimately transform the way that that sales went? Yeah, ultimately it transformed. We built a new sales team around it and it helped us win more deals and it really kind of set the structure for the knowledge share across the funnel. So is in this world we didn't have a really structured revops team and this role, but it kind of kind of sowed the seeds of growing that revops unit and making sure that we had the right touch points on why we're winning deals, how we're getting more of those deals into the funnel from the marketing side and then, ultimately, how we're growing as a strategy to make sure that we were accommodating the reasons why we're winning deals. So did you did you see anything specific to like the classic would be more deals, bigger deals, faster deals. I mean, did you see the impact there? Yeah, so we saw that one. Our win rate just went up. So the percentage of deals that we'd win was much higher if we had this sales, engineering team or strategy team on the deal. The retention was quite a bit higher as well, because they felt like they had a strong, trusted technical partner outside of just a seller. So the retention of those deals was much higher. And then also, I think we had an ASP increase as well for the committed revenue for each deal. That's that's a right in line with with what a lot of people are reporting and certainly approve our experience as well. would be right in that, you know, people today need, the need, the trust and confidence of having a tour guide, essentially for the software that they've licensed. More and more and more of us are creating software that the value of which relies on a customer, but the customer does with it right. That's just a huge issue. Right, it's a because if you don't, if you don't enable them correctly right, you won't get a renewal and ultimately, regardless of where the problem was, the fault, if you want to use that word, will be with software company, not with the customer. Absolutely yeah, and being on the other side of that, Simon the system's world, on the revops side, of the House. So I go through procurements and renewals of our standard softwaes that we use for good market tools, marketing tools, and I'll tell you, from a buying perspective, nothing turns me off of a deal faster than than somebody that I feel in house we have more technical knowledge of their product than they do. So that's where I really...

...focus on our sales team to be the thought partners and leaders and if they haven't seen something before, be honest and bring somebody in that has, because no one wants to buy a software firm from somebody that doesn't really understand the full capability or the gaps in their own software. So see it from both sides. Absolutely. There's a really great book out there in the name of the exact name of it is eluding me at right at the moment, but the gist of it is, if you think that selling in be to be as hard, try being a be to be buyer, right and I think that that's exactly what you're talking about right there. Yeah, so where do you think all of this is going? So Rev ops was an identified trend as far back as I don't know, kind of like the two thousand and fifteen time frame, foresters started talking about it. In many cases, for the ensuing say three years or so, it was essentially a rebranded sales ops organization most of the time, and then we had two thousand and twenty and two thousand and twenty one one, and that poor gasoline on a lot of things, and revops definitely appears to be one of those key areas that really got a lot of new emphasis and thought behind it. And so more and more and more of the REVOPS teams that I am talking to are relatively newly minted multi functional teams and there's still a you know, the normal politics and all this kind of stuff, but there's all the level of mandate that they're receiving from on high inside their corporations is substantial. How are you seeing this evolve from where you sit? I mean, I just kind of laid out a narrative, but do you see it that way? Do you do you see it happening kind of a little bit differently? Where do you think it's all going? Yeah, I think it's evolving really fast and the way that you described. So in the past, you know, you've seen these kind of small if there's a revops team. It's a relatively small revops team. There's somewhat of a week Matrix in terms of project authority. They'll work with the functional leadership and maybe, if there is a sales opps department as well, marketing ups department as well. That small knit revops team is basically just trying to keep up with everything that's going on in those different apartments. Is What I've seen and that's kind of how they start to see and grow. And I think more and more companies are realize, you know, if they've started with that, that revops team becomes, you know, more valuable and they need more more folks. I think a lot of companies are shifting to a more but a strong matrix where they have a larger ops or greater revops team that's responsible for all the functions that we used to silo and different departments and then have strong kind of dotted lines up to the functional leaders in and sales, marketing, customer success, and that's the way we're moving as well.

As we'll have, you know, hired the best sales ops person. They'll be in REV ops. Hire the best customer success retention ops person that can that can work with our systems and then we have one kind of project management or PMO structure within REV OPS and make sure that that were doing the things that matter to our bottom line, rather than have each department individually manage their bandwidth, hiring and build in different ways where you know if you have turnover and things like that in the Rev ups department, it seems like you can kind of keep consistent project management organization work with the functional leaders and in scale up in a way that that you're keeping the full revenue cycle in mind. So it's your point. I think we've seen experiments with REV OPS and now we're going to see more and more companies with a really strong matrix of REV OPS authority over projects and and larger revops teams. Yeah, you know it's yesterday I was having a like a pre interview of prep session for one of these podcasts with a very senior leader inside of steel for and he made the observation, which I hope he he says can when we record, to the effect that in a very short period of time revops, and he would include marketing ops and all the other subjects right have have kind of gone from being the proverbial water boys on the team, the coaches of the team, right, and then from that with the additional expectation that, from the sea sweet point of view, they would also be referees of the game. Sure, do you feel about that? Yet? That resonates quite a bit because there's there's gonna be natural friction points, you know, with each company, and I think rev ops rather than the the waterboy analogy, coach analogy. I think coach analogy makes this friction points a little easier to manage. It fits within a team, especially the refereeing of those type of decisions. And Yeah, so that's that's one. I think critical role that rebops place is unbiased. We're looking at the revenue cycle and where we're trying to increase or reduce any bottlenecks that are that are happening, and so without that authority, they it does become kind of like water boy looking up different reporting, asking other teams for reporting or generating the worst, generating your own reporting without telling the functional leaders. So so having the referee mindset as well as the coaching mindset, I think, is it better mindset to be in. It really unblocks those functional leaders to focus on the critical task that nate. They need to to kind of accelerate their business unit rather than the opps functions and the critical tasks, because sometimes, you know, sometimes leadership is focused more on ops or getting this reporting rights. Having the stakeholders that are experts in that domain all within one umbrella to make sure that they can take off some of...

...those opps tasks, I think will be critical to helping them do their job to the best of their billy as well. So are you? How are you handling issues of optimization right now? So I gif the C suite right came along and said, hey, we want to spend in two thousand and twenty two, we want to spend on making this up, because I've no idea what your budgets are. Fifty million dollars across sales, marketing and customer sport because of success, and tell us how to divvy that money up right, based upon the business case, right, based upon how these things inner lock to produce a final outcome, and kind of what the what the relative contribution of each is. How do you currently think about that? Are you is is the way you're thinking about it changing or right now? What's going on with that? Because that's a that's something that we're running into almost every day in ceasweet conversations, is that they it's not so much about budget increases and budget cuts, is that they want to be able to optimize what they're spending, which could include both of those things right at any given time, but they also want to be able to optimize it in light of all the stuff that they don't control, all the stuff that's happening outside in the marketplace. How are you guys kind of tackling that problem, understanding that, like everything else, it's a journey? Yeah, yeah, I think that is also I don't have the perfect answer for that. That's a new, you know, going to be an ongoing or kind of a new problem that that will need to tackle. But the way that I would kind of approach this is trusting the leaders in each department, laying out all the assumptions that we're going to make about, you know, experiments, what what we feel very competent in spend in our life for those spend, why we feel confident in those, and really using expert opinion on those, making sure that we have the information that we need if they're any gaps. Are Big assumptions were making make sure that we're all signed off on. You know, we don't know how this spend is going to go. We think it'll it'll go here, but there's a large degree of risk in this, in this column of spend, and really bring the different leaders together to to understand why they feel that way. Make it as data driven as post a little bit. Ultimately, you know, trust the experts. Are you finding that people are asking for more forecasting? I mean something that sales has been doing for a long time but a lot of these other functions have not. Is that coming up? Yeah, I think forecastings always been an interesting one and and I've talked with the folks that sales force as well. I think they do a really great job of of forecasting down to comping their reps on, you know, how accurate they were with their forecast and getting bonuses. If they were accurate and if they ended up beating their forecast, they wouldn't get that bonus. So yeah, I'm seeing forecasting and forecasting is always always been big. There's been...

...kind of a triangulation that's pretty accepted in this ass community of what is finance forecast based on historicals, and maybe there's variance in seasonality. So just based on the numbers, what's our forecast from from the analytics finance side? Then what's sales going to call like? So it is sales leadership call if there's looking at the addressful market and in conjunction with talking with marketing about where's their spend going? What do we expect for a new you know, new channels and and leads coming in? So sales leadership will make the call. Then let the bottom kind of bottoms up sellers. You know what a sellers think they can call and what's their their territory like, and then with that, you know we should get to a pretty acceptable number. And sometimes those are widely off and sometimes they aren't. That's that's the way I've typically seen it on and honestly, the there's no perfect at answer to forecasting. The best, though, is to track what people call or what we forecasted and then see how you came up against that forecast and then kind of see where your assumptions were often the prior period of time. So I do think a lot of companies maybe aren't as as advanced as one like sales force and holding different folks at the individual level responsible for what they've called forecasting wise and and revisiting and maybe doing a retro of, you know, what went right or when we're wrong in the forecasting. And you know, it's interesting you talking about sales worts, because they're a big partner of ours and one of the things we are working with them on is to help them understand the extent to which marketing is a multiplier on sales productivity and thus where is a where's a balance point where, if we increase marketing spin by, you know, twenty percent, does that enable them to make adjustments on the sales side that create a more optimized situation overall? Right, you know, you at the end of the day, you either but I guess you either fundamentally believe that marketing exists as a multiplier or not. And if it does, then what is that mean for your sales spend and and other kinds of spend? Right, one of the things that a long time ago, this is like way long time ago. First Time I ever saw this kind of thing in action was at BMC software and the sales leader in Asia, pack guy named ship Saliards, started working with us because he wanted to optimize sales productivity as much as possible, and one of the things that we really saw was that as we increased the right kinds of marketing sport over there, he his team got more and more and more efficient, meaning specifically that they were able to close a lot...

...more deals than a given quarter than they had previously been able to. So this was not only about a volume thing, but it was about a sales velocity improvement that was rather significant and it allowed them to not have to spend more on new sales guys. Right. So they were able to control their total cost of sales much more efficiently and effectively than ever before, largely because of the demonstrated relationships between marketing and sales that were giving them that uplift. Yeah, that's the perfect example I think of. You know, I don't know if that team had a defined rebops unit. They didn't. This was way where were. They did have sales ops but they did not have a REV opstain, and this was in the very beginning of even marketing ops as thing. Right. Yeah, that's where I think if teams double down on that knowledge transfer. So maybe it's not a revops team, but that transfer of hey, we're getting these type of leads or leads coming in through these channels. Sellers are saying they're closing easier and it's it's showing up on our sales reports and showing that to marketing quickly to your points like hey, we're spending these millions of dollars, let's make some adjustments and double down on this channel, because what we're learning from sales and it doesn't take long. It takes, you know, couple weeks. We I mean current that Bento box here. We have a relatively fast sales cycle. So we can learn a lot about our customer base and our lead flow pretty quickly. So having that knowledge transfer of saying, Hey, this is working, this isn't working, and we have the rituals to to pass back that information and the right folks leading those conversations and looking at the right reports, and that can really influence the rest. Like a full year. And you know, you can do kind of continuous cleaning of where your spend is going. Maybe it's a problem on the sales side to so you can have transfer back there. So here's how we're marketing to these folks. Make sure you know are we how are we pitching these these folks are, what's our pitch look like? So there's that full kind of understanding across the funnel. Well, and I think, I think you really put your finger on something really important. Or the speed of the feedback loop in a given business is so important. You know, based on what you've just described, ben to box has a an advantage over many enterprise be to be companies that have a much longer sales motion and thus the risks attached to that motion go up exponentially. Right. I mean when I was seeing mode honeywell aerospace, right, our average sales cycle was somewhere in the vicinity of fourteen to sixteen months, something like that. And so there were if we weren't highly predictive all the way through that and really keeping track of how that was rolling, if we had just said, well,...

...here's a snapshot at the very beginning and now we're going to wait fourteen to sixteen months to see how it turns out, we would have really been in a problem, right, because it not everything is going to go well, right, and if you wait until the very end to find out it didn't go well, it's not a good thing. Yep, a hundred percent. Since since having the right can org structure rituals meetings would have you reporting to give that knowledge, kind of pass that information back and forth is key. And then yet does help to have a faster sales cycle to make sure that, you know, we can test experiments or or assumptions along the way. You know, you you've brought up the word rituals several times and I would I feel like I would be really remiss if we didn't dig into that a little bit. Tell me what that means to you. Yeah, so when I think about teams that you know do really well, it's usually because they know when they're going to meet, they know what they're going to talk about and they know, you know, not everything is a fire drill necessarily or new information. So there's rituals of maybe it's just a weekly meetings or slack channels that that people all submit information into, but having defined sets of time and rolls responsibilities really make, I think, everyone's role quite a bit easier, the job more fun and dedicated place to to share information across the revob cycle or uncover new opportunities in a way that you know. If you just if everything's kind of ad hoc reporting or we're going to spin up a project based on one thing and you know a few assumptions off of that project, maybe you don't get to get to the potential big opportunities that you get if you have this continuous focus on the revenue, the revenue pipeline and how how we're trending. So that feedback loop with the right I guess I could substitute rituals with with meetings or you know, and just general off sites things like that that that make the team more apt to share potential big opportunities. And there's a implicit in that word, I think, is the idea that it's a very predictable aspect of a process. Right. It's almost where, if you think about people, process technology, it's where process and people come together. Right, absolutely, Yep, and and yeah, I think sometimes those are those are well defined and other times they aren't. I think you know, you could identify a number of different problems, but if you don't have a meeting or goal or some sort of structure to solve problems, then then you know they're just kind of ad hoc reporting problems that you don't really have. The quote unquote rituals again sound like a broken record to to solve. So would you? Would you say that? I mean, and I realized that it you know, you can go into the other ditch and all that kind of stuff, right, but it sounds like the part of what you're...

...saying is that right now, relative to where things have been, there needs to be more hesitate, to use the word rigidity, but there's there needs to be more predictability in terms of how information is going to be communicated and to whom, and kind of ultimately saying, while this is a collaborative effort, there is sort of a first among equal wolves, tiebreaker kind of roll here for revot that. Is that fair? Is that a kind of a bridge too far in your mind? I mean, where does that come? I mean, I would say that might almost be a half bridge too far. How's that was? What the difference? Because right, fair gotten, the answer might be that we don't know exactly what we're looking for, but we have this this standing meeting to sell tell a story and see what we're seeing in our data and discuss it and have an open line of communication and ask questions and say, all right, what, what could what are some of the things we think happened here? Why is our data looking like this. Oh, we'll take some time to warm up. You know, x new domain address that we're sending from, or we've got some email deliverability problem. So it could be any number of things where, if, yeah, too much rigidity, people don't trust the data, then they just don't really necessarily trust the that that meeting if it's only going to be focused on one report and they know more information. So having that that time to kind of share and even even storytell a across different apartments of what's actually happening, I think it's super important and yeah, a certain level of rigidity, but it's not in a science and, like you said, you can fond the and find yourself in a ditch of, you know, fifteen meetings with different people that you're repeating the same thing. So there's definitely a happy balance in there somewhere. Would you say that? Is it fair to say that part of REVOPS, and modern REV OPS is is to keep everybody on the road and not in the ditches? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's to bring going back to kind of the project management structure, if it's a strong matrix, it's to bring the right people from the right departments in or external consultants were needed and and really be more coaching on that rather than, you know, adding some structure, but also not wasting everybody's time with with things that that may not be be suited to bring everybody in on. So I think reb ups does fill that gap if they are, you know, not the waterboys. To your point one, and more than the coaching structure. I mean I'm getting some of this right now in some of the other conversations I'm having right now. We're like from a C sweet perspective. I've run into three C suees in the last two weeks who, and boards for that matter, who want the marketing, sales customer success picture right presented to them, from...

...a data analytics point of view by Rev ops, not by the functions. You feel like that. That's also kind of where things are going. Absolutely yeah, and and it shouldn't be done in a vacuum either way. Right, it should be rebop stamp of approval. It's one thing hit I've pushed for it probably every company of been at is, let's have a centralized reporting unit. And when company we went as far as to say, sales managers, you can run reporting, but don't don't share them with anybody. And and these are are reports that we care about. And here's the list of sanctioned reports, so to speak, or signed off on reports by analytics, I. Functional Leads, and we'll take those and we can tweak them, make some some some adjustments, but that really helps change management. So if we make some changes to the underlying data, we know where to check to validate that. You know, the approved reports won't be impacted. But ultimately REV OPS should have that story down and they should work in conjunction with the the functional leads to build the reporting and maybe the functional leads really help with that and build it. But it should be signed off on. One of my favorite quotes as the person with one watch always knows the time and the person with two is never quite sure. So if you have never heard that, but that is a that is a terrific that's a little I love that. That's awesome. So yeah, I think it's super important to have, you know, one source of truth, Gold Standard Report, and that way people are looking at the same information and it really should. I think the direction is it's moving to REV OPS. If rebops has you kind of mentioned marketing, sales support, I think rebops teams are still relatively new. Were looking to expand into that type of functional unit, so having Rev ops for support, reops for marketing, repops for for core sales, and that's the direction that Bento box is going, which I'm super extended about, and that's, I think, the direction of a lot of other stass companies are going. So one more question, and that is this right, and it's not just unique to rub ups. I think it's a broad statement here. That's that's accurate. So for years people have primarily relied on data and they have they have a masked data and they have visualized it in various kinds of ways or boards and tableau and all kinds of stuff. Right, and that data is super important. They are now, you know, particularly post two and two thousand and twenty one. They're realizing that data is really important, but it's always historical. They're realizing that past is not prolog anymore and that they've got to be able to forecast into a situation that may change quite a bit over the course of physical your or whatever. Right, and that analytics, whether it is machine learning for pattern matching or regression for causality, and being...

...able to optimize relationships. All that stuff is becoming more and more and more critical. How do you see the ARC on this developing? Because, you know, there is absolutely an Arc of maturity here. It would be foolish to say otherwise. But there's a lot of pressure in the system to get better and better and better on this. How do you see that development? Yeah, so, as I said, I was accidental sales for Sadmin business systems experience into the rebop space. So this is one where it's kind of a garbage in, garbage out. So data very important, but are we looking at the right data and and, you know, are we trusting the data that we're getting and are we bring it in in a consistent way that has historical importance and has, you know, some, some degree of trust. So if you look at ai tools that are looking at, I don't want to pick on sales for us here, but but I might of AI tools that are layered on top of data that may exist in all of your crm and they're looking for pattern matching and they're looking for X, Y Z, they might tell you that yea, it's a little immature and that they might tell you that, hey, this rep closes deals x amount higher and they say, Oh, that's an enterprise rep or a New York City closes higher sales prices. Well, that's where all you know the larger corporate headquarters are located out of. So no surprise there. On the ZIP Code of New York City equals higher average del size. So it takes, I think, the right level of analysis in conjunction with with that that mapping, when some tools I've noticed which are really good at it, or are looking at anomalies in your data. So maybe not to your point of looking for the future, but looking for anomalies of hey, so andso seller is is x percent as sent out x percent less emails last week. Tool called a tram HQ, which is really, really powerful at that. Or so this seller hasn't closed to main deals we'd expect per ramp period or this cohort of sellers. Here's where they stand if they're hired at the same time. So they'll surface some of the analysis proactively saying week over week, this is over seventy percent down, or new leads are thirty percent down for the seller for forever reason. So instead of having to look through the charts and kind of look at the time over time variance. That's where the the kind of AI and looking for phenominalies and reporting on differences is is becoming really powerful. Whereas before it might be a three or four person job, it can be you know, sales manager can just take it, take a quick look at it, see if there's anything that that needs needs action, and I'm sure similar tools exist for reporting and change variance on the on the marketing side as well. So I think, yeah, having the right analyst there that can really interpret the data and has a strong connection with where the data is coming from rather than just pulling the reports is really important. All right, man, I really appreciate it. This has been a great kind of the final Kapper on...

...our series on rebops and I think that you you added a lot of clarity. You're very complimentary kinds of insights to what some of the other guests offered up. It's a you know, it's clearly a situation that is very much evolving, but I think that in five years from now, or even less right a lot of what we've discussed here today is going to be the norm. Totally Great and great conversation. Thanks for taking the time mark. Thanks so much, nate. All right, everybody got some really, really cool stuff lined up on accelerating value. See It, the sooner you can optimize your marketing spend, the quicker you can start delivering clear, measurable value to Your Business. That's exactly where business GPS from. Proof analytics can help. Learn more at proof analytics DOT AI. You've been listening to accelerating value, where raw conversations about the journey to business impact help you weather the storm ahead. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time,.

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